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   Il M5S incontra Julian Assange

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  •  Red_Knight
      Red_Knight
Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange
#1
Sono certo di non sapere
Iscritto il: 31/10/2005
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Messaggi: 3121
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@Sertes

Citazione:
Devo dire che invidio la totale ingenuità di molti.


By the way, francamente non mi sembra il modo migliore di iniziare un intervento.

Citazione:
quali elementi potrebbero portarvi a dire che il personaggio x è un disinformatore.


Rilasciare sotto la propria personale garanzia di correttezza informazioni erronee, inesatte, fuorvianti, mal presentate o parziali, o apertamente mendaci, allo scopo di ingenerare un'opinione non aderente alla realtà nella mente del destinatario, consciamente e, di norma, a vantaggio proprio o di qualcun altro.

Questa è la definizione di "disinformare" che credo di possedere io.

Per fare un esempio le dichiarazioni sulle prove del possesso di armi di distruzione da parte dell'Iraq di Saddam rilasciate da Panorama rappresentano disinformazione.

La tua definizione invece include il concetto di "utile", che è molto relativo. In base ad essa potrebbe essere definito disinformatore chiunque non faccia informazione, o magari chiunque non faccia informazione sull'11 settembre, dando per scontato che chiunque manifesti, su certe faccende, un'opinione diversa dalla nostra stia mentendo.

Per rimanere sull'11 settembre, sarebbe un disinformatore chi portasse prove false a favore della versione ufficiale o presentasse la faccenda in maniera tendenziosa. Assange non se n'è mai occupato, di conseguenza almeno fino a prova contraria non dovrebbe essere considerato un disinformatore. Per altro, se lo fosse, volendo usare il proprio "peso" per sponsorizzare l'opinione dominante sul 9/11 non lo direbbe en passant «in un'intervista ben nascosta, di quelle notizie che passano una volta e poi non vengono più riprese». Non ti pare?

---

Citazione:
spiano tutto il traffico internet con upstream, spiano tutti i principali servizi di posta elettronica, social network e telefonia voip con la complicità dei provider, compiacenti o meno, spiano tutte le telefonate di stati nemici come di stati alleati, riescono a spiare pure le telefonate crittografate dei leader europei, hanno accesso a tutte le cartelle cliniche, hanno accesso a tutti i conti bancari online, hanno craccato la crittografia dell'ONU e spiano pure le video-conferenze interne all'ONU.
Tutti questi dati vengono memorizzati e mantenuti all'infinito, senza scadenza.


Non è del tutto corretto. Una tale mole di dati probabilmente sarebbe talmente enorme da trovare un limite superiore alla sua conservazione nella capacità produttiva dell'industria delle memorie!
Prima di tutto, si appoggiano a sistemi già sviluppati da grandi compagnie e a servizi di sorveglianza di altre nazioni, e hackano grandi database già esistenti (come quelli delle compagnie cinesi). Non si tratta di spionaggio automatizzato, in stile "Grande Fratello" insomma, ma di hacking all'uopo, e cioè di spionaggio "tradizionale", tecnologicamente avanzato ma che è sempre avvenuto.
Invece i sistemi apertamente dedicati alla raccolta indiscriminata "a strascico" di dati grezzi a livello mondiale, proprio perché devono andare sui grandi numeri, non conservano tutto per sempre: ad esempio Tempora conserva il dump delle comunicazioni via fibra ottica per 3 giorni e i metadati relativi per un mese; Xkeyscore ha una politica simile. Verosimilmente anche Upstream, operato da AT&T, rappresenta "solo" (si fa per dire) una versione planetaria di Carnivore (in ogni caso non intercetta tutto il traffico mondiale, ma una larga fetta).
Quello che rimane per sempre è il database delle informazioni che alla fine del processo interessano veramente loro.
Giusto per precisione.
Questo significa che anche se effettivamente l'NSA (e non solo) può accedere alle nostre cartelle sanitarie e ai nostri conti in banca in qualsiasi momento (cosa che con meno agio è sempre stata comunque possibile a qualsiasi servizio segreto), è piuttosto difficile che un occhio umano abbia mai realmente avuto di fronte su un monitor o su un foglio tali informazioni.
Più che la sorveglianza degli individui in stile orwelliano quindi quella che secondo me è la cosa veramente preoccupante è invece la visione d'insieme che si può ricavare da tutti questi dati opportunamente processati: statistiche precisissime e quasi in tempo reale su una miriade di fenomeni. Una tale semionniscienza in mano a un governo mette i brividi.
Tu ti riferivi a questo?
Inviato il: 4/12/2013 6:02
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     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Ghilgamesh 30/11/2013 10:24
       Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 30/11/2013 11:49
         Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange MARCO M5S 30/11/2013 15:31
           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Pyter 30/11/2013 16:08
             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange MARCO M5S 30/11/2013 16:20
               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange horselover 30/11/2013 16:46
                 Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange MARCO M5S 30/11/2013 17:28
                   Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange horselover 30/11/2013 18:36
                     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange TAD 30/11/2013 18:44
                       Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange MARCO M5S 30/11/2013 23:07
           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 30/11/2013 20:16
             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange MARCO M5S 30/11/2013 23:08
               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Sertes 30/11/2013 23:47
                 Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange MARCO M5S 1/12/2013 0:06
                   Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Sertes 1/12/2013 0:15
                     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange MARCO M5S 1/12/2013 0:27
                       Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Sertes 1/12/2013 0:44
                         Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange MARCO M5S 1/12/2013 1:23
                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange earlturner 1/12/2013 1:54
                             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange DrHouse 1/12/2013 13:37
                               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange yarebon 1/12/2013 13:58
                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Ghilgamesh 1/12/2013 3:15
               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 1/12/2013 5:30
                 Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange invisibile 1/12/2013 9:30
                 Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange MARCO M5S 2/12/2013 0:46
                   Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Sertes 2/12/2013 8:54
     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange black 1/12/2013 23:58
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         Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Ghilgamesh 2/12/2013 9:50
           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange lysmata 2/12/2013 13:36
             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Witt83 2/12/2013 14:36
               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Sertes 2/12/2013 14:45
             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Red_Knight 2/12/2013 14:50
               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Witt83 2/12/2013 15:12
               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange yarebon 2/12/2013 15:14
                 Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange DrHouse 2/12/2013 15:39
                   Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange yarebon 2/12/2013 17:16
                     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange matteog 2/12/2013 22:55
                       Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Ghilgamesh 3/12/2013 2:27
                         Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Red_Knight 3/12/2013 5:00
                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Ghilgamesh 3/12/2013 11:35
                             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Red_Knight 3/12/2013 14:24
                             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange DrHouse 3/12/2013 15:45
                         Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange matteog 3/12/2013 21:50
                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange matteog 3/12/2013 21:58
                             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Ghilgamesh 3/12/2013 23:29
                             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange perspicace 3/12/2013 23:32
                               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange yarebon 3/12/2013 23:54
                                 Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Red_Knight 4/12/2013 1:42
                                   Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Sertes 4/12/2013 3:24
                                     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Red_Knight 4/12/2013 6:02
                                       Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Sertes 4/12/2013 9:55
                                         Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Rickard 4/12/2013 10:53
                                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange invisibile 4/12/2013 11:28
                                             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 4/12/2013 11:37
                                               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange ohmygod 4/12/2013 12:04
                                         Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange DrHouse 4/12/2013 14:57
                                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Ghilgamesh 4/12/2013 15:28
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                                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Sertes 4/12/2013 15:44
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                                             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange ohmygod 4/12/2013 16:10
                                               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange DrHouse 4/12/2013 16:22
                                                 Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange perspicace 4/12/2013 16:46
                                                   Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange ohmygod 4/12/2013 16:50
                                                     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Sertes 4/12/2013 17:36
                                                       Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Rickard 4/12/2013 17:42
                                                         Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 4/12/2013 17:56
                                                         Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange DrHouse 4/12/2013 18:09
                                                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 4/12/2013 18:43
                                                             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange DrHouse 4/12/2013 18:58
                                                               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange yarebon 4/12/2013 19:34
                                                                 Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Pyter 4/12/2013 20:16
                                                                   Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Det.Conan 4/12/2013 23:19
                                                                     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange earlturner 5/12/2013 0:40
                                                                       Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange DrHouse 5/12/2013 1:47
                                                                         Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Red_Knight 5/12/2013 6:23
                                                                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Ghilgamesh 5/12/2013 9:29
                                                               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 5/12/2013 10:08
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                                                                   Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 5/12/2013 11:01
                                                                     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Sertes 5/12/2013 11:19
                                                                       Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange ohmygod 5/12/2013 13:30
                                                                         Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Red_Knight 6/12/2013 5:33
                                                                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 6/12/2013 10:04
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                                                                                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 6/12/2013 13:11
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                                                                                               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange perspicace 6/12/2013 13:44
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                                                                                                   Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Pyter 6/12/2013 15:10
                                                                                                     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange DrHouse 6/12/2013 15:21
                                                                                                   Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Red_Knight 6/12/2013 15:58
                                                                                                     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Pyter 6/12/2013 16:25
                                                                                                     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Sertes 6/12/2013 16:26
                                                                                                       Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange DrHouse 6/12/2013 16:31
                                                                                                         Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange ohmygod 6/12/2013 16:50
                                                                                                       Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Red_Knight 6/12/2013 16:42
                                                                                                         Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 6/12/2013 18:32
                                                                                                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Red_Knight 6/12/2013 19:04
                                                                                                             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange matteog 6/12/2013 21:05
                                                                                                               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange perspicace 6/12/2013 21:59
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                                                                                                                 Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Red_Knight 7/12/2013 5:53
                                                                                                                   Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Sertes 9/12/2013 15:19
                                                                                                                     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange ohmygod 9/12/2013 15:52
                                                                                                                     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Red_Knight 9/12/2013 18:20
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                                                                                                                       Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Pyter 9/12/2013 18:42
                                                                                                                         Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Ghilgamesh 9/12/2013 21:41
                                                                                                                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Red_Knight 9/12/2013 23:07
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                                                                                                                                                 Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange ohmygod 10/12/2013 11:02
                                                                                                                                                 Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Ghilgamesh 10/12/2013 12:05
                                                                                                                                                   Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Pyter 10/12/2013 12:09
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                                                                                                                                                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 10/12/2013 19:44
                                                                                                                                                             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Merio 10/12/2013 22:50
                                                                                                                                                               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 11/12/2013 0:54
                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Red_Knight 11/12/2013 3:49
                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Merio 11/12/2013 8:07
                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Ghilgamesh 11/12/2013 10:47
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                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Red_Knight 11/12/2013 12:51
                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange ohmygod 11/12/2013 13:32
                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Ghilgamesh 11/12/2013 18:23
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                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange ohmygod 11/12/2013 16:33
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Ghilgamesh 12/12/2013 17:44
                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Red_Knight 12/12/2013 18:10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange ohmygod 13/12/2013 14:42
                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Ghilgamesh 13/12/2013 16:27
                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange matteog 13/12/2013 16:50
                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Red_Knight 13/12/2013 17:32
                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Ghilgamesh 14/12/2013 9:51
                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange yarebon 14/12/2013 12:15
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Ghilgamesh 14/12/2013 13:51
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Ghilgamesh 14/12/2013 17:07
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange ohmygod 14/12/2013 20:45
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Ghilgamesh 14/12/2013 23:52
                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange DrHouse 14/12/2013 23:58
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Ghilgamesh 16/12/2013 8:26
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange matteog 16/12/2013 14:15
                                                                                                             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 7/12/2013 9:42
                                                                                                               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Rickard 7/12/2013 10:36
                                                                                                                 Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange DrHouse 7/12/2013 12:35
                                                                                                                   Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange ohmygod 7/12/2013 13:12
                                                                                                                     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Pyter 7/12/2013 16:54
                                                                                                                       Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange horselover 7/12/2013 17:05
                                                                                                                         Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange ohmygod 7/12/2013 17:14
                                                                                                                         Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 7/12/2013 17:16
                                                                                                                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange horselover 7/12/2013 17:29
                                                                                                                             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 7/12/2013 17:37
                                                                                                                       Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange DrHouse 7/12/2013 17:28
                                                                                                                         Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 7/12/2013 17:40
                                                                                                                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange horselover 7/12/2013 17:48
                                                                                                                             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 7/12/2013 18:19
                                                                                                                               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange horselover 7/12/2013 18:43
                                                                                                                                 Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 7/12/2013 18:47
                                                                                                                                   Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Pyter 7/12/2013 19:52
                                                                                                                                     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange DrHouse 7/12/2013 20:14
                                                                                                                                       Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 7/12/2013 20:19
                                                                                                                                         Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Pyter 7/12/2013 20:53
                                                                                                                                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 8/12/2013 17:57
                                                                                                                                             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Rickard 9/12/2013 15:08
                                                                                                                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange DrHouse 7/12/2013 17:54
                                                                                                                             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 7/12/2013 18:05
                                                                                                                               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange DrHouse 7/12/2013 18:39
                                                                                               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 6/12/2013 18:04
                                                                     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange captcha 6/12/2013 10:25
                                                                       Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 6/12/2013 10:39
                                                             Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange lysmata 4/12/2013 19:19
                                                           Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Ghilgamesh 5/12/2013 1:01
                                                   Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange DrHouse 4/12/2013 17:30
               Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange Calvero 2/12/2013 17:03
     Re: Il M5S incontra Julian Assange black 3/12/2013 18:16
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