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Re: Faide interne in LC
#1
Sono certo di non sapere
Iscritto il: 13/10/2004
Da Sud Europa
Messaggi: 5123
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nichilista ha scritto:
Non ho dato a te dell'idiota, ma al titolo che hai messo.
Se non comprendi la differenza, difficilmente potremo capirci.



in realtà faccio grossa fatica anche io a trovare la differenza.


ricordo che molti post fa mi ritrovai dinanzi ad un'affermazione del buon henry62(pace all'anima sua)che recitava pressapoco così:

"io non contesto la persona mazzucco, contesto il suo lavoro"

trascendendo quindi quello che è l'agire di mazzucco dal suo essere come persona:

mi incazzai fortemente.

ritengo fondamentalmente che l'essenza di una persona consista semplicemente in un elemento:
le sue idee.


Ciao Nichilista

io non so se hai mai lavorato in gruppo con altre persone.
a me è capitato, in lavori "creativi"
Si discute, uno butta giù una idea.
"secondo me hai detto una cazzata", si spiega perchè, si passa oltre.

Anche le menti migliori possono dire cazzate.
Anche pseudotale può dare al topic un titolo idiota, pur non essendo un idiota.

L'essenza di una persona consiste nelle sue idee, dici, ma io posso benissimo rispettare una persona pur non condividendo le sue idee.
Ad esempio ci sono argomenti sui quali sono in totale disaccordo con molti degli altri utenti, questo non mi impedisce di rispettarli e di considerarli persone intelligenti con le quali vale la pena discutere.

L'idea che solo coloro che condividono interamente le nostre idee siano degni del nostro rispetto potrebbe anche apparire pericolosa, e lasciamelo dire, è più vicina alla mentalità "da partito" che di un sito come luogocomune.

Tornando a pseudo, è sicuramente una persona intelligente, sono in disaccordo con lui nell'80% dei casi, ma questo non toglie nulla all'affermazione di prima.

Allo stesso modo, forse ho usato una espressione poco simpatica nle definire idiozia il titolo scelto da pseudo, ma tale è e tale resta a mio parere.
Pseudo ha usato la parola "faida", che evoca spargimenti di sangue, duelli, vendette...

Sono sicuro che anche lui si è reso di aver scelto un titolo idota, che non aiuta lo scopo che si era prefissato, discutere con calma e pacatezza i temi che gli stavano a cuore.

Se ammettesse che ha scelto un titolo idiota, ciò andrebbe esclusivamente a suo favore.
tutti sbagliano, e tutti commettono idiozie, senza essere idioti.

Ora mi fermo, perchè l'accademia non mi piace, ma il concetto è infinitamente chiaro, mi pare.

per quanto riguarda l'articolo che hai segnalato per denunciare "il fronte comune bellicoso", io vedo solo delle considerazioni analizzate e confutate.
Se qualcuno non era d'accordo con tale analisi, controbatteva.

Ma mettersi a piagnucolare perchè un articolo che si giudicava interessante è stato confutato, mi sembra oltre che infantile un'occasione sprecata.

Blessed be
_________________
-o- Ama e fa' ciò che vuoi -o-
Inviato il: 1/2/2007 1:12
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Oggetto: Autore Data
     Re: Faide interne in LC Pausania 31/1/2007 15:09
       Re: Faide interne in LC Jimbo72 31/1/2007 15:16
         Re: Faide interne in LC Santaruina 31/1/2007 15:45
           Re: Faide interne in LC edo 31/1/2007 15:50
     Re: Faide interne in LC Paxtibi 31/1/2007 15:25
       Re: Faide interne in LC Cassandra 31/1/2007 15:31
         Re: Faide interne in LC Pausania 31/1/2007 15:39
           Re: Faide interne in LC Jimbo72 31/1/2007 15:48
             Re: Faide interne in LC Pausania 31/1/2007 16:08
               Re: Faide interne in LC Infettato 31/1/2007 16:57
               Re: Faide interne in LC pseudoTale 31/1/2007 17:19
                 Re: Faide interne in LC Paxtibi 31/1/2007 17:30
                   Re: Faide interne in LC marcocedol 31/1/2007 17:57
                   Re: Faide interne in LC Pausania 31/1/2007 21:36
                   Re: Faide interne in LC Cassandra 1/2/2007 14:26
                     Re: Faide interne in LC Paxtibi 1/2/2007 14:43
                       Re: Faide interne in LC spettatore 1/2/2007 14:58
                         Re: Faide interne in LC Cassandra 1/2/2007 15:11
                           Re: Faide interne in LC Det.Conan 1/2/2007 15:32
                           Re: Faide interne in LC Pausania 1/2/2007 15:34
                             Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 1/2/2007 16:15
                               Re: Faide interne in LC zakheim 1/2/2007 19:00
                                 Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 1/2/2007 22:09
                                 Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 1/2/2007 22:44
                                   Re: Faide interne in LC Redazione 1/2/2007 23:21
                                     Re: Faide interne in LC Kirbmarc 1/2/2007 23:38
                                       Re: Faide interne in LC Paxtibi 1/2/2007 23:45
                                         Re: Faide interne in LC nike 2/2/2007 0:13
                                           Re: Faide interne in LC Santaruina 2/2/2007 1:27
                                             Re: Faide interne in LC nike 2/2/2007 2:04
                                               Re: Faide interne in LC Santaruina 2/2/2007 2:25
                                             Re: Faide interne in LC SENTIERO 2/2/2007 2:37
                                               Re: Faide interne in LC florizel 2/2/2007 2:56
                                                 Re: Faide interne in LC Redazione 2/2/2007 6:42
                                                   Re: Faide interne in LC Santro 2/2/2007 8:08
                                                   Re: Faide interne in LC nike 2/2/2007 14:11
                                                     Re: Faide interne in LC Paxtibi 2/2/2007 18:34
                                                     Re: Faide interne in LC florizel 3/2/2007 11:17
                                                       Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 3/2/2007 15:31
                                                         Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 3/2/2007 15:49
                                                         Re: Faide interne in LC nike 3/2/2007 21:36
                                                           Re: Faide interne in LC fiammifero 3/2/2007 21:49
                                                           Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 3/2/2007 22:16
                                                       Re: Faide interne in LC SWE 3/2/2007 16:15
                                                         Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 3/2/2007 16:27
                                                           Re: Faide interne in LC florizel 3/2/2007 17:07
                                                             Re: Faide interne in LC _gaia_ 3/2/2007 18:57
                                                               Re: Faide interne in LC Pausania 3/2/2007 19:12
                                                                 Re: Faide interne in LC SWE 3/2/2007 19:38
                                                                   Re: Faide interne in LC Pausania 3/2/2007 19:45
                                                                 Re: Faide interne in LC nichilista 3/2/2007 19:59
                                                                   Re: Faide interne in LC zakheim 3/2/2007 20:34
                                                                     Re: Faide interne in LC nichilista 3/2/2007 20:42
                                                                     Re: Faide interne in LC Linucs 3/2/2007 20:56
                                                                     Re: Faide interne in LC nike 3/2/2007 21:08
                                                                       Re: Faide interne in LC Linucs 3/2/2007 21:15
                                                               Re: Faide interne in LC SWE 3/2/2007 19:27
                                                                 Re: Faide interne in LC _gaia_ 3/2/2007 19:41
                                                                   Re: Faide interne in LC SWE 3/2/2007 19:55
                                                                     Re: Faide interne in LC _gaia_ 3/2/2007 20:08
                                                         Re: Faide interne in LC florizel 3/2/2007 17:09
                                                           Re: Faide interne in LC SWE 3/2/2007 18:17
                                                             Re: Faide interne in LC zakheim 3/2/2007 18:21
                                                               Re: Faide interne in LC marcocedol 3/2/2007 18:27
                                                                 Re: Faide interne in LC SWE 3/2/2007 18:44
                                                                   Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 3/2/2007 18:53
                                                                     Re: Faide interne in LC zakheim 3/2/2007 19:36
                                                                   Re: Faide interne in LC marcocedol 4/2/2007 2:30
                                                                     Re: Faide interne in LC Linucs 4/2/2007 9:56
                                                                       Re: Faide interne in LC SWE 4/2/2007 11:00
                                                                         Re: Faide interne in LC Santaruina 4/2/2007 11:32
                                                                           Re: Faide interne in LC Pausania 4/2/2007 12:00
                                                                             Re: Faide interne in LC sick-boy 4/2/2007 12:10
                                                                           Re: Faide interne in LC marcocedol 4/2/2007 13:42
                                                                         Re: Faide interne in LC marcocedol 4/2/2007 14:08
                                                                           Re: Faide interne in LC Santaruina 4/2/2007 14:42
                                                                             Re: Faide interne in LC pseudoTale 4/2/2007 16:37
                                                                               Re: Faide interne in LC marcocedol 4/2/2007 19:54
                                                                                 Re: Faide interne in LC florizel 4/2/2007 20:25
                                                                                   Re: Faide interne in LC pseudoTale 4/2/2007 20:46
                                                                                     Re: Faide interne in LC Linucs 4/2/2007 21:10
                                                                                       Re: Faide interne in LC Linucs 4/2/2007 21:23
                                                                                   Re: Faide interne in LC florizel 4/2/2007 22:24
                                                                                     Re: Faide interne in LC sick-boy 4/2/2007 23:20
                                                                               Re: Faide interne in LC fiammifero 4/2/2007 23:20
                                                                                 Re: Faide interne in LC Cassandra 5/2/2007 10:36
                                                                                   Re: Faide interne in LC spinox 5/2/2007 11:33
                                                                                   Re: Faide interne in LC goldstein 5/2/2007 12:34
                                                                                     Re: Faide interne in LC Cassandra 5/2/2007 15:13
                                                                                       Re: Faide interne in LC goldstein 5/2/2007 15:29
                                                                                         Re: Faide interne in LC gobbo 5/2/2007 15:42
                                                                             Re: Faide interne in LC Pausania 4/2/2007 16:50
                                                                               Re: Faide interne in LC pseudoTale 4/2/2007 16:58
                                                                               Re: Faide interne in LC nike 4/2/2007 18:27
                                                                                 Re: Faide interne in LC nike 4/2/2007 18:28
                                                                                   Re: Faide interne in LC Paxtibi 4/2/2007 19:02
                                                                               Re: Faide interne in LC florizel 4/2/2007 19:32
                                                                                 Re: Faide interne in LC pseudoTale 4/2/2007 20:29
                                                                                   Re: Faide interne in LC florizel 4/2/2007 20:43
                                                                                   Re: Faide interne in LC sick-boy 4/2/2007 21:18
                                                                                   Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 4/2/2007 22:30
                                                                                     Re: Faide interne in LC nichilista 4/2/2007 23:36
                                                                                     Re: Faide interne in LC zakheim 4/2/2007 23:51
                                                                                       Re: Faide interne in LC spinox 5/2/2007 1:05
                                                                                         Re: Faide interne in LC Tubo 5/2/2007 2:37
                                                                                       Re: Faide interne in LC nike 5/2/2007 1:08
                                                                                         Re: Faide interne in LC florizel 5/2/2007 1:45
                                                                                           Re: Faide interne in LC gobbo 5/2/2007 2:49
                                                                                             Re: Faide interne in LC gobbo 5/2/2007 2:50
                                                                       Re: Faide interne in LC javaseth 4/2/2007 11:57
                                                                     Re: Faide interne in LC SWE 6/2/2007 15:05
                                                                       Re: Faide interne in LC marcocedol 6/2/2007 15:15
                                                                         Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 6/2/2007 17:42
                                                               Re: Faide interne in LC SWE 3/2/2007 18:33
                                                               Re: Faide interne in LC nichilista 3/2/2007 18:41
                                                             Re: Faide interne in LC sick-boy 3/2/2007 18:28
                                                               Re: Faide interne in LC florizel 3/2/2007 18:46
                                                                 Re: Faide interne in LC sick-boy 3/2/2007 18:52
                                                 Re: Faide interne in LC sick-boy 2/2/2007 12:20
                                                 Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 2/2/2007 22:19
                                                   Re: Faide interne in LC florizel 3/2/2007 1:03
                                                 Re: Faide interne in LC nike 3/2/2007 21:22
                                                   Re: Faide interne in LC florizel 4/2/2007 14:38
                             Re: Faide interne in LC Wintermute 1/2/2007 16:32
                               Re: Faide interne in LC Santaruina 1/2/2007 16:41
                                 Re: Faide interne in LC Det.Conan 1/2/2007 16:50
                                 Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 1/2/2007 16:55
                                 Re: Faide interne in LC nike 1/2/2007 17:01
                                   Re: Faide interne in LC Santaruina 1/2/2007 17:12
                                     Re: Faide interne in LC Santaruina 1/2/2007 17:19
                                     Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 1/2/2007 17:21
                                     Re: Faide interne in LC bandit 1/2/2007 17:24
                                       Re: Faide interne in LC Pausania 1/2/2007 17:31
                                       Re: Faide interne in LC nike 1/2/2007 17:33
                                         Re: Faide interne in LC Kirbmarc 1/2/2007 17:38
                                     Re: Faide interne in LC nike 1/2/2007 17:30
                                 Re: Faide interne in LC Jimbo72 1/2/2007 17:05
                         Re: Faide interne in LC nike 1/2/2007 16:21
                           Re: Faide interne in LC nike 1/2/2007 16:51
                     Re: Faide interne in LC nike 1/2/2007 14:53
                       Re: Faide interne in LC javaseth 1/2/2007 16:12
                 Re: Faide interne in LC Pausania 31/1/2007 17:33
                   Re: Faide interne in LC Santaruina 31/1/2007 17:50
                 Re: Faide interne in LC florizel 31/1/2007 17:59
                   Re: Faide interne in LC Redazione 31/1/2007 20:09
                     Re: Faide interne in LC hombre 31/1/2007 20:20
                       Re: Faide interne in LC aras74 31/1/2007 20:47
                         Re: Faide interne in LC Redazione 31/1/2007 20:59
                         Re: Faide interne in LC Ashoka 31/1/2007 21:12
                       Re: Faide interne in LC Linucs 31/1/2007 22:48
                         Re: Faide interne in LC SWE 31/1/2007 23:24
                         Re: Faide interne in LC hombre 1/2/2007 17:45
                           Re: Faide interne in LC Wintermute 1/2/2007 17:50
                             Re: Faide interne in LC nike 1/2/2007 18:15
                               Re: Faide interne in LC Redazione 1/2/2007 20:08
                                 Re: Faide interne in LC nike 1/2/2007 20:36
                               Re: Faide interne in LC bandit 1/2/2007 20:57
                                 Re: Faide interne in LC davlak 1/2/2007 21:05
                                   Re: Faide interne in LC Linucs 1/2/2007 21:29
                           Re: Faide interne in LC hombre 3/2/2007 22:57
                             Re: Faide interne in LC lixuxis-EX 4/2/2007 1:18
                               Re: Faide interne in LC goldstein 4/2/2007 1:31
                                 Re: Faide interne in LC Santaruina 4/2/2007 2:06
                       Re: Faide interne in LC hombre 4/2/2007 20:58
                         Re: Faide interne in LC hombre 7/2/2007 12:45
                           Re: Faide interne in LC maxgallo 7/2/2007 13:29
                             Re: Faide interne in LC florizel 7/2/2007 15:14
                             Re: Faide interne in LC Punkaster 7/2/2007 16:51
                               Re: Faide interne in LC florizel 7/2/2007 17:12
                           Re: Faide interne in LC Linucs 7/2/2007 13:46
                             Re: Faide interne in LC marcocedol 7/2/2007 14:15
                               Re: Faide interne in LC Santaruina 7/2/2007 14:54
                                 Re: Faide interne in LC maxgallo 7/2/2007 15:22
                                   Re: Faide interne in LC pseudoTale 7/2/2007 16:00
                                 Re: Faide interne in LC hombre 7/2/2007 16:22
                                   Re: Faide interne in LC hombre 7/2/2007 16:33
                               Re: Faide interne in LC SWE 7/2/2007 18:00
                                 Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 7/2/2007 18:08
                                   Re: Faide interne in LC orkid 7/2/2007 18:39
                                     Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 7/2/2007 18:45
                                 Re: Faide interne in LC marcocedol 7/2/2007 18:17
                                   Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 7/2/2007 18:22
                                   Re: Faide interne in LC SWE 7/2/2007 18:35
                                     Re: Faide interne in LC marcocedol 7/2/2007 18:46
                                       Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 7/2/2007 18:51
                                         Re: Faide interne in LC astro 7/2/2007 19:04
                                           Re: Faide interne in LC marcocedol 7/2/2007 19:17
                                           Re: Faide interne in LC SWE 7/2/2007 19:26
                                     Re: Faide interne in LC florizel 7/2/2007 19:37
                                       Re: Faide interne in LC SWE 7/2/2007 20:03
                                 Re: Faide interne in LC florizel 7/2/2007 20:33
                                   Re: Faide interne in LC Redazione 7/2/2007 20:44
                                     Re: Faide interne in LC nike 7/2/2007 22:21
                                   Re: Faide interne in LC SWE 7/2/2007 21:21
                                     Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 7/2/2007 21:54
                                       Re: Faide interne in LC Pausania 7/2/2007 22:17
                                         Re: Faide interne in LC nike 7/2/2007 22:24
                                         Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 7/2/2007 22:30
                                           Re: Faide interne in LC Enrico 7/2/2007 23:11
                                             Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 7/2/2007 23:15
                                               Re: Faide interne in LC Redazione 8/2/2007 1:53
                                                 Re: Faide interne in LC SWE 9/2/2007 20:54
                                                 Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 9/2/2007 22:05
                                                   Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 9/2/2007 22:20
                                                     Re: Faide interne in LC Cassandra 10/2/2007 0:32
                                                       Re: Faide interne in LC javaseth 10/2/2007 0:45
                                                         Re: Faide interne in LC nike 10/2/2007 0:54
                                                           Re: Faide interne in LC javaseth 10/2/2007 1:04
                                                             Re: Faide interne in LC astro 10/2/2007 2:46
                                                               Re: Faide interne in LC Linucs 10/2/2007 11:57
                                                                 Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 10/2/2007 15:57
                                                                   Re: Faide interne in LC PikeBishop 10/2/2007 16:02
                                                                     Re: Faide interne in LC nike 10/2/2007 16:37
                                                                       Re: Faide interne in LC PikeBishop 10/2/2007 17:01
                                                                         Re: Faide interne in LC SWE 10/2/2007 20:30
                                                                           Re: Faide interne in LC SWE 11/2/2007 12:03
                                                                             Re: Faide interne in LC PikeBishop 11/2/2007 12:22
                                                                               Re: Faide interne in LC Linucs 11/2/2007 13:50
                                                                                 Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 11/2/2007 15:59
                                                                               Re: Faide interne in LC SWE 11/2/2007 14:21
                                                                                 Re: Faide interne in LC PikeBishop 11/2/2007 17:47
                                                                                   Re: Faide interne in LC nike 11/2/2007 18:28
                                                                                     Re: Faide interne in LC Chiara_men 11/2/2007 18:54
                                                                                       Re: Faide interne in LC Linucs 11/2/2007 19:13
                                                         Re: Faide interne in LC Redazione 11/2/2007 20:42
                                                     Re: Faide interne in LC nike 10/2/2007 0:40
                                                       Re: Faide interne in LC nike 10/2/2007 0:49
                                     Re: Faide interne in LC javaseth 7/2/2007 22:15
                           Re: Faide interne in LC Santaruina 7/2/2007 14:11
                   Re: Faide interne in LC targaryen 31/1/2007 20:19
                     Re: Faide interne in LC Infettato 1/2/2007 9:22
                       Re: Faide interne in LC Linucs 1/2/2007 11:31
                         Re: Faide interne in LC fiammifero 1/2/2007 12:39
           Re: Faide interne in LC Santaruina 31/1/2007 15:52
     Re: Faide interne in LC Tubo 31/1/2007 21:55
       Re: Faide interne in LC pseudoTale 31/1/2007 23:37
         Re: Faide interne in LC Redazione 1/2/2007 0:04
         Re: Faide interne in LC Paxtibi 1/2/2007 0:31
           Re: Faide interne in LC SENTIERO 1/2/2007 1:46
           Re: Faide interne in LC pseudoTale 1/2/2007 7:16
             Re: Faide interne in LC Paxtibi 1/2/2007 8:49
             Re: Faide interne in LC sick-boy 1/2/2007 8:50
               Re: Faide interne in LC Paxtibi 1/2/2007 9:05
                 Re: Faide interne in LC Santro 1/2/2007 9:09
                   Re: Faide interne in LC sick-boy 1/2/2007 9:19
         Re: Faide interne in LC nichilista 1/2/2007 0:53
           Re: Faide interne in LC Paxtibi 1/2/2007 1:06
           Re: Faide interne in LC Santaruina 1/2/2007 1:12
             Re: Faide interne in LC Kirbmarc 1/2/2007 1:17
             Re: Faide interne in LC nichilista 1/2/2007 1:49
               Re: Faide interne in LC Paxtibi 1/2/2007 2:06
               Re: Faide interne in LC SENTIERO 1/2/2007 2:08
                 Re: Faide interne in LC Santaruina 1/2/2007 2:33
                   Re: Faide interne in LC nichilista 1/2/2007 2:38
                   Re: Faide interne in LC SENTIERO 1/2/2007 3:00
     Re: Faide interne in LC Tubo 1/2/2007 5:11
     Re: Faide interne in LC Tubo 3/2/2007 4:40
       Re: Faide interne in LC Santaruina 3/2/2007 4:55
         Re: Faide interne in LC SWE 3/2/2007 9:15
     Re: Diatribe interne in LC florizel 3/2/2007 19:11
     Re: Diatribe interne in LC Tubo 3/2/2007 21:38
     Re: Diatribe interne in LC Tubo 5/2/2007 3:19
       Re: Diatribe interne in LC Redazione 5/2/2007 3:22
         Re: Diatribe interne in LC LoneWolf58 5/2/2007 12:52
     Re: Diatribe interne in LC orkid 5/2/2007 15:24
     Re: Diatribe interne in LC Tubo 5/2/2007 16:15
       Re: Diatribe interne in LC astro 5/2/2007 16:54
         Re: Diatribe interne in LC astro 5/2/2007 17:03
           Re: Diatribe interne in LC gobbo 5/2/2007 22:14
             Re: Diatribe interne in LC Redazione 5/2/2007 23:01
               Re: Diatribe interne in LC Santro 6/2/2007 7:19
               Re: Diatribe interne in LC nike 6/2/2007 18:37
                 Re: Diatribe interne in LC Wintermute 6/2/2007 18:46
                   Re: Diatribe interne in LC nike 6/2/2007 18:51
                     Re: Diatribe interne in LC Santro 6/2/2007 19:33
         Re: Diatribe interne in LC Fabrizio70 5/2/2007 17:23
           Re: Diatribe interne in LC aras74 5/2/2007 21:31
     Re: Diatribe interne in LC Tubo 6/2/2007 19:37
       Re: Diatribe interne in LC maxgallo 6/2/2007 20:59
         Re: Diatribe interne in LC Chiara_men 6/2/2007 22:37
         Re: Diatribe interne in LC SWE 6/2/2007 22:43
           Re: Diatribe interne in LC Chiara_men 6/2/2007 22:58
             Re: Diatribe interne in LC maxgallo 7/2/2007 0:31
             Re: Diatribe interne in LC fiammifero 7/2/2007 0:40
               Re: Diatribe interne in LC Redazione 7/2/2007 2:02
                 Re: Diatribe interne in LC nike 7/2/2007 6:22
                   Re: Diatribe interne in LC Redazione 7/2/2007 9:38
                     Re: Diatribe interne in LC SWE 7/2/2007 10:30
                       Re: Diatribe interne in LC Redazione 7/2/2007 10:44
                         Re: Diatribe interne in LC Redazione 7/2/2007 10:44
                         Re: Diatribe interne in LC SWE 7/2/2007 11:39
                           Re: Diatribe interne in LC soleluna 7/2/2007 11:52
     Re: Diatribe interne in LC Punkaster 7/2/2007 11:50
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